© Dave Mason : entire contents : Shoreham
by
First page of dialogues with others that illustrate Praxis
The following is a series dialogues that were
conducted over the Internet between 1999 - 2001. An index at the beginning
lists the dialogues; please scroll down to find particular items. The people
asking questions have been rendered anonymous and some of the language,
spelling and phrasing has been tidied up but the spirit of it all has been
retained.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Index
Sounds heard whilst meditating
When
sitting meditation is difficult
Link
to second page of dialogues
_________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
I am consumed with busyness. I like to work. I like to
create. I like to do, do, do. My hunger is for projects. Sitting in meditation
is so difficult for me although when I force myself I often enjoy it. How do I manufacture
hunger for spiritual practice?
A.
Then don't sit. Use your busy-ness as your practice.
Don't just be busy, watch yourself be busy. You cannot manufacture hunger and
passion. I promise you they are there in you. They will come out, when you watch
your self all the time - or what ever practice you choose and stick too all the
time).
Use all of what you do, to see all of what you are !
Also don't make spiritual and non-spiritual - it's all
the same porridge . . .
_________________________________________________________________________________
QWhat do you mean when you say "I have trouble
with the concept 'no-self', which for me, is the old man coming in through the
back door"?
A.
We make something
called the "self;” you, me, everyone. Genes, our personal history,
the interactions between the two, maybe some "outside" spiritual
elements; they all make up the porridge called "self." Then we have
some experiences that are a bit outside the usual food-drink-shelter-sex merry
go round. Perhaps we label it "no-self," but it is just
another "self." Who experiences this no-self? Labels and labeling
come easy. The label "no-self" is an attempt to describe something
difficult but I think this label misleads. We just have another label. The old
man who went out the front door, walks round the back, and comes in through the
back door. Same old man, different door.
Q.
Maybe it's those pesky labels
that create all the problems in the first place.
A.
We create all the problems.
Q.
It's such a human thing to
name/label things.
A.
Everything we do is a human
thing.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
Does constancy ever bring you
peace of mind?
A.
It is best not plan or aim for
peace of mind. Instead, aim for something even better: find out who you are!
You do this by constantly looking. And when you are sick and tired of looking, look
some more. Praxis certainly works, but what it brings is different for all. It
would be better for you to ask this: not "will I get peace of mind from
this or that method," but rather, "what will I bring to the search,
how much do I want it, what am I prepared to do and how often?" To answer
your question, I would say yes, but my "peace of mind" might be
different to yours.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
I would be interested to
know why you think feelings are any more real than thoughts.
A.
The trite but true answer
is I don't "think" this; I feel it. The completely irritating answer
is with another question:
What is the difference
between thoughts and feelings?
Yet this question is a
priceless gem. This is what happened to me. I could not answer that question. I
was told this:
"as a blade cannot
cut itself
as a finger cannot touch
itself
so a thought cannot see
itself."
. . . . . hmmmm, a blade
cannot cut itself.
Unless you break the blade
in half and use one half to cut the other. Then you have 2 blades . . . . and
this is what thoughts do. They work out answers. They "calculate."
They comment, but they do more than this. The mind uses thought to
"arrange" things. And the mind goes . . . . . . . . . .
this is good, this is bad
this is good, this is bad
this is good, this is bad
this is good, this is bad,
on and on . . . . . .
You can work out a truth
with thought, but it just remains a thought, until your emotions validate it. I
am not talking every-day thought like 2 + 2 = 4, which rarely needs validating
emotionally. I am talking about a situation where someone might say, for
example, mathematics is more important than love. The former thought process is
a calculation; the latter, an idea of how-things-should-be. Both are thoughts
but it is the feeling of love that will show you how important it is.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
I thought spiritual
teachings were telling us to overcome our feelings and not be ruled by them?
A.
Feelings are more important
than thoughts because feelings have 'layers'. 'Underneath' a feeling is another
feeling, and underneath that, another feeling, more and more into deep places.
The 'deeper' feelings are more important than the 'surface' ones because they
act like signposts. We experience truth as a feeling. When following a method
like Praxis you are not setting feelings up as more important as such, we are
saying some feelings are more important than others. These deeper feelings will
not rule you or your behavior; they will just show you wonderful things.
When you watch your
feelings Constantly, you will see where you choose and don't choose, and see
this thousands of times a day. All these choices and not-choices will happen
anyway, but there is one choice that is vital: choosing to find out who you
are.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
How can I keep from
getting knocked away by emotions? I try to watch but the memory of what
happened consumes me...
A.
In order to get by in the
day-to-day world we use tactics learned during very early childhood. These
tactics mostly involve how to handle and suppress feelings. Sometimes that
control breaks down. If it happens strongly and often enough, then it gets
labeled as an illness. The emphasis in Praxis is to let all your normal mental
and physical functions happen as they occur. So, there are two things going on
here. Deal with your feelings - and any other problem - as you would do
normally. If your normal functioning is having problems, then devise a tactic
to deal with it, just like you would if you were not engaged on a spiritual
quest. Perhaps seek therapy to solve this. Praxis is not necessarily going to
help you deal with "normal" problems. The second thing is, you cannot
use Praxis to "patch" personal problems. Praxis brings benefits, but
they are long term. Having said that, Jung wrote this many years ago:
"....the main
interest of my work is not concerned with the treatment of neuroses but rather
with the approach to the numinous. But the fact is that the approach to the
numinous is the real therapy, and inasmuch as you attain to the numinous
experiences you are released from the curse of pathology. Even the very disease
takes on a numinous character."
Ř
(Jung :
Letter to a colleague 1945)
This is a very interesting
observation form Jung but in my experience a spiritual path is not the best way
to deal with personal problems; indeed, some personal problems may get worse as
spiritual quests can be stressful. In the long term, personal problems
can loose their centre-stage insistence if a spiritual method is diligently
followed. However, if you have personal problems it is better to fix them
directly. If you break a leg, a Doctor will fix it; if you have personal
problems see a therapist who will help you fix them. Therapy will not clash
with Praxis; they go together very well.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Another person responded to Jung's quote above . . . .
.
Q.
Does the numinous take on
a diseased character?
A.
I feel the numinous to be
beyond our labels . . .
Q.
What then do you talk of
when you talk of the numinous? What have you labeled?
A.
My labels, like yours are
a bit hit and miss, when it comes to the numinous.
Or the big mystery
Or nirvana
Or the peace that passeth understanding
Or the cloud of unknowing
Or
[ insert your label here ]
Have you got one?
Q.
Imagine for a moment that
I had a car. And it was broken so I took it to the garage and I said my car is broken,
I think it's the numinous. The what? The numinous. It's playing up. And while
you're about it, would you take a look at my engine because I can't seem to
feel anything. He'd think I was mad because I'm not playing the language game.
And nor are you. We can all talk about numinouses but try taking them to a
garage to get them fixed!
A.
That's wonderful but
remember - it's the sum-up type labels that are a bit hit and miss. I agree, a
word like numinous could mean everything and nothing, but we don't just use one
word. Where we do, it's a kind of shorthand for a feeling-set that's very
complicated and changeable. Perhaps like me you have spent hours in the pub,
sometimes reaching a new place, built through sharing feelings communicated by
combinations of words. To reduce that end-of-evening feeling to one word is not
very helpful, I agree, but if others use words like this I do not feel shy
about trying to make some contact. It's the feeling-set I hope to achieve, not
a revelation about one word.
I really loved your
"garage" illustration. I am still laughing. The irony is, that life
is so strange, you just might get you numinous fixed at a garage . . . . . . .
. .far stranger things have happened !
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
The common human goal is
happiness. Every well-directed action we undertake has that as its objective,
for ourselves or for others. Achieving that goal is what Buddhism is all about.
A.
I understand your theory and I
like what you bring to it. The approach I take is different; Praxis has very
little theory as such, but says something like this: "if you want to find
out what truth might be for you, try this technique." If asked how I know
this, my reply is simple. Because I have been doing it for years and it works.
At this stage, people usually try to get me describing what my experiences and
understandings might be. Whilst not ignoring their request, I consistently
return to the ‘kernel’, that they must try it for themselves if
they want to really experience truth, and not just learn a means to describe
what it might be.
I know you strongly advocate the
practice of meditation, but you also clearly blend it to a goal of happiness,
explaining the mechanism whereby this happiness is achieved. Even with this as
a good intention, in fact it creates just another layer of ideas that will need
to be let go of, at some stage or another. It might be better to say: "The
goal is to know what is true, don’t worry about trying to describe it
now, wait till you know. Any description of the state you might achieve, is
itself a barrier." Spike Milligan tells a little story in one of his
books; he has been summoned to see the sergeant. He is marched in to a dingy
room where the single dim light bulb seemed to make the room darker! I like
this image. Too much theory in this area of the human heart tends to make the
room darker, despite its good intentions.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
. . . . . . it is on the
wings of faith (the belief that there is a "something[s]"to know)
that we are to soar."
A.
No.
The irony is, it's the
opposite. We don't really soar till we let
go of faith, let go of ideas, let go. Here it gets tricky: you
cannot force yourself to let go. This is where we get stuck. Letting go comes
from watching. Watch yourself like hawk. Watch who needs faith and the
"why" will become apparent.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
How could we be guided to the
truth without GOD ? GOD is the everlasting Truth. Correct me if I am wrong.
A.
I do not know who God is. I have
never met him/her. Truth, however, is attainable; especially when seen as a
process, rather than as a single achievement.
If God has spoken or shown
him/herself to you, then everything is ok. You do not really need to go on
soul-searching; you put your effort into discovering his/her intentions. You
may look into your soul to discover the intentions there but it's not the same
kind of looking that I do. You look into your soul for extra information to
help with a truth you already know. I look into my soul to find truths I do not
yet know.
I have to tell you this. Most
(most!) of the people I know who talk about God a lot do not act as if they have
found some powerful personal truth. Their actions and their demeanor seem more
like people who have hopes rather than truth. I suspect that the power of their
needs, manifesting through hope, lead them to cast that hope as truth. In fact,
they have just stopped at a comfortable place. I do not mind that as such. What
I mind is when that place of comfort becomes a fortress from which the
narrow-sighted go forth to punish those who do not agree.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
I try to be conscious of all I
do, say, feel, etc. It is very difficult during the course of my workdays,
which are long. But I always seem to find myself not breathing. I realize
periodically throughout the day that I must have been holding my breath. How
could I go so long without breathing?
A.
Breathing is a mysterious and
complex process. Do not worry if you have periods when it seems you are not
breathing. Your body will know when to start breathing again.
Holding the breath is natural;
your body and your unconscious mind are denying the fear inside, so they
prevent the flow of energy, which allows the fear to flow by holding or
controlling the breath. Never force your breathing. When you realize that you
are holding your breath, just let it out; don't punish yourself, but go back to
your looking. You will get past this, but you must be ready to confront your
fears.
When your body/mind holds the
breath it is doing this as a kind of self-defense. So it is worth heeding that
warning. If you are going to face your fear then plan to have some support in
place. If you do not have anyone to lean on, then be cautious and gentle with
yourself. It is my experience that a fear faced squarely and with honesty is
never as bad as a fear left lurking in the shadows of your mind. It is also my
experience that very, very few people can "go it alone," so, look to
your support.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
Hi, how old are you? Where did
philosophical questions lead you in the past; I mean, what beliefs / theories
have inspired you in the past... to make this site?
A.
I am 47. I always liked Zen and
Sufi material. Their stories made me laugh. However, it was at the point when I
found myself no longer inspired by the philosophy of others that things really
changed for me.
Q.
I kind of "got hooked"
on the theories that "we create out own reality" . . .
A.
Be careful ! "We create our
own reality" - then why can't we stop war, rape and murder right now? Or
even by next Friday? In my opinion this "create your own reality"
approach is a false start and its roots come from paths of seeking power rather
than knowledge. "Reality" is very strange; the following is an
example. I will tell you a big secret. Are you ready?
Are you sat comfortably?
Prepared?
Really ready?
Here it is . . . . .
You
create your own reality and you don't create anything at the same time.
Wow - are you any wiser? No.
Because real spiritual knowledge does not come from trying to change reality or
even from learning but from SEEING your own heart and mind. In order to see
your own heart and mind you need to choose a technique.
Q.
Recently I searched through a
little Buddhist stuff, where I also find things I like. . . . . I guess I kind
of feel a little like that Sam guy in you story "Conversation,"
searching for answers all over (especially on the web), without being able to
apply it in my own life.
A.
Why can't you apply it? What is
stopping you? If you are thirsty, you drink some water. If you want to find out
who you are, start looking. If you do not know how, find a method. Now I know
it is not this simple, but you need to be careful: some people confuse wanting
a better life with wanting a spiritual life - they are not the same. Following
a spiritual path means that things will probably get worse for you (at first).
Ask yourself this: how much do I really want it? What am I really prepared to
do to find out?
Q.
I read you whole site a half a
year ago (but a little fast), and the story some months ago . . . I think I
have to go through the site again to grasp it more. I guess it be a waste of time,
if I don't decide to try the exercises . . .
A.
Choosing what to do can be the
hardest thing. You must choose one day. If in doubt, if you cannot decide, then
find a group of people that you like, and join their group. The interaction
with other people is an important part of breaking through your own barriers.
You can always leave later on if you have to. The Tibetan Buddhists always
seemed a friendly lot.
Q.
Thanks for you time, and if I
start doing that Praxis, I will update you on how I feel it works.
A.
Thanks for mailing me. You do not
need to tell me how it's going. Only how it's not going.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
About Constancy: I find
that by watching my thoughts, I -more often than not- alter or stop them, with
the thought that I am watching them. I am having extreme difficulty watching
passively, in other words. I suppose all the months of meditating incorrectly
has created a forceful habit. Is this something that can only be avoided with
time/practice of Constancy?
A.
Do not be hard on yourself
if you find you have been "getting involved," but watch this new
involvement! Keep bringing the emphasis back to watching. At first, you will be
doing this ever few seconds, then every few minutes. It takes years to be able
to watch your thoughts with complete attention; even then, you are still
watching your mind thinking. Do not seek to stop your thoughts but don't let
them carry you away either. Keep coming back to the act of watching them.
Q.
It has been happening so
intensely, so out of my power to "control."
A.
Get ready for intensity.
It does not matter that people might not understand, as long as you commit to your
effort. When your constancy is solid, then it does no harm for you to wonder
for change. Passion! The irony is, that constancy, the "passive
watching" you spoke of before, will actually release energy - passion. You
will feel a burning for more experiences. The way of managing this is match your integrity to your passion.
If you are truthful to yourself, you are in the right direction . . . .
Q.
I have to stop and ask
myself, "have I really been watching?" I never find a satisfying
answer though.
A.
Perfect, you have moved
on. Watch the uncertainty, the beauty of it; you do not need to resolve this
"have I, haven't I" debate. Watch
the uncertainty - keep coming back to it. This is constancy, the
constant RETURNING to the fullest possible attention.
Q.
It's all very fascinating.
I feel like an infant at Disney World sometimes. . . . . . .
A.
Good.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
Dave, how else do we get
nearer to the truth?
A.
To get nearer, you choose
and apply a technique. It's not so much that truth is indescribable, it's that
my description will not help you get nearer. And your description will not help
me.
What really matters? Not
that we might feel some vague comfort at a poetic description of what truth
might be, but that we apply techniques to find out directly what's true, for
ourselves. If you don't know what's true, learn some techniques and apply them
till you do. If you do know what's true, tell others if they ask or invite it.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
I have a question: how do
I learn to keep my mouth shut?
I might have
unintentionally severed a very close friendship today because I opened my mouth
about something. My friend had said this: "I don't know why I feel this
way.” Well, I told her why without considering the consequences of it,
and then she exploded . . . . . . There was no way I could put it or fix it
otherwise and not compromise honesty. At times like this I wish I did not have
a mouth to speak or fingers to type with. I'm not asking if you think I was
right or wrong; it's a futile question. I think more than anything I'd like to
know how I could fix this, or at least stop making it worse, or keep my mouth
shut next time, with another.
A.
Yes it hurts when
something like this happens, we've all been there and others will go there
tomorrow. My usual line : "don't beat yourself up too much." Honesty
is good but sometimes it just hurts. You can NEVER (and I mean NEVER) know all
outcomes. Sometimes, we just get it wrong. You know, (and I know you know), a good
friend will forgive you. Sometimes, we just loose good friends. Having said
that , there are few things to watch out for.
Firstly, I know you are
only paraphrasing what she said, but you told me she said this: "I don't
know why I feel this way. " Ok - going with this, she did not actually
"ask" did she? You have to get "permission" when talking
about the deeper level Praxis feelings, when you have to be honest. Golden rule
- "they must ask first." Now with good friends you have like a
standing order to be honest, to BE good friends. When it comes to going to the
deeper places, still, they must ask first. There is a threshold to the
"deeper" places and I think you already have a sense of it. It is
hard to know sometimes, when you are in there talking and connecting with time,
this threshold does get easier to see coming.
Even if they ask first, or
you get the equivalent of this "permission," sometimes they will
still leave. If this happens, it does not hurt to say sorry but never try to
undo what 's done. Your friends - everyone - need you to be you. "You can
lead a horse to water, but you cannot make her drink" etc. etc. Sometimes,
if you think the honesty is going to cause problems, warn them first. "You
won't like this, but . . . .do you still want it?" Reading between your
lines, I think you have a good feel for this kind of thing, so do not be
discouraged.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Sounds heard whilst meditating
Q.
Is it normal to hear sounds
outside of meditation, sounds that go away when I try to listen? Very, very
subtle but beautiful sounds such as wordless singing (at least, I can't make
out the words), musical instruments, and earth sounds such as water and wind?
When in meditation I do not hear them, I think because I am trying to hear
them. When I do hear them, it is most often when I am quietly reading or laying
down to sleep/dozing off. When I direct my attention to them, concentrating,
they cease.
A.
Yes, I have, and do, experience
something similar. It's ok to ask me about my practice if it helps you with
yours. At this stage, where you are now, I would say all the sounds are to do
with the movement of energy. (There is more going on here, but it's best to
concentrate on what needs to be done now). Whether in formal meditation or not,
you must experiment in adjusting you posture. You cannot grasp these sounds
with your physical ears or attention. If you adjust your posture correctly they
will. It's not the sound itself that matters (no matter how tantalizing it
sounds - which is probably your mind playing tricks on you). It is allowing the
energy to freely pass that is crucial.
IT IS VITAL THAT, BY ADJUSTING
POSTURE, YOU ALWAYS LET ALL ENERGIES PASS FREELY THROUGH YOU.
Energy that is held in, will
screw you up.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Koans are Japanese riddles used in the teachings of
Zen Buddhism. The most famous one is: "What is the sound of one hand
clapping?" Koans are not really designed to be solved logically; they are
designed to occupy the analytical mind on the chance that some other
experiences may get a chance to be let out.
Q.
I still haven't figured
out your zen koan:
"my heart burns like
fire
but my eyes are as
cold as dead ashes"
( Soyen Shaku )
I have looked at the page
on your site with it on. Are you going to tell me the connection, or do I have to
figure it out by myself? The only thing I can come up with is that things
aren't always what they seem!
A.
Koans are not really about
being told anything. You have to "hold" them. Let your mind try and
figure them out but watch your feelings and see what slips out! One tip: koans
should make your feel a bit uncomfortable, this is a good sign, and indicates
that it is worth persisting.
If koans are not your
thing, don't worry, let them go before the onset of madness! Koans are not my
thing but I sometimes "hold" a question. I watch what my mind does
but carry on holding it till my mind starts to ramble away and obsess about
something else. I carry on with the holding till something happens . . . . . .
. .
I never hold for too long.
You have to find your own balancing point a fine distinction between
"holding" a question and "gripping" it! Gripping it is when
you persistently use the question to avoid something.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q
Passion. Where does that come
from anyway? How can we control how much of it we have or what we have it for?
A.
The only real control over
passion is to not hang on to it. When you are you, passion will be there too.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
Thought creates reality. All
reality is created by thought. My thoughts dictate my reality. Try it yourself.
Give it a shot. Use your will to create events in your life. . . . . . .
A.
This is not true in the
way you mean it. I know what you are reaching for but it is all vastly more
complicated than this. If your thought creates reality then stop the fighting
in the world right now. Do it right now or, go back in time and stop the
Holocaust!
. . . . . . so much for
thought changing things. Thought can change other thought and eventually there
might be a pay-off when your new attitudes impact through interaction with the
world around you. People can improve their lives not just by changing their
thoughts, but by understanding why they have such thoughts in the first place.
Some thoughts can then be changed by looking at the cause of thoughts. When the
cause is seen clearly, it eventually withers away. When it has gone or changed,
thoughts change too, then behavior changes. You wrote: "Use your will to
create events in your life." Be very careful when you offer advice to
people the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
You told me to show things rather
than tell them. I haven't captured any answers for the telling yet. I've been
distracted with something else . . . . There's a lot bubbling up to the surface
now so fast that it's overwhelming. . . . . I believe this is why I feel so
much of that weird pressure right now . . . .I mean, the deep stuff of my whole
existence, why I am what I am right now . . . .
A.
Weird pressure is good ! Just
watch it. It's ok to be a mess.
Bad news = you always will be, (I
am too).
Good news = it does not matter
because its only suffering . . . . . .
Q.
I'm not sure if it always works
like this, the thoughts coming first and then the feelings following, but
thought seems to 'always' come immediately before the feeling. . . . When I
learn I'm incorrect in my perception, then what I felt/thought turned out to be
not-true after all.
A.
It does not matter what comes
first; just watch the whole porridge. You said: "When I learn I'm incorrect
in my perception, then what I felt/thought turned out not-true after all."
This is beautiful. How can something be true and then not true? Because finding
truth is PROCESS not ARRIVAL.
_________________________________________________________________________________
A.
I'm
having a hard time explaining and going through this right now, my head feels
as if it's going to split I'm trying to sit up straight and adjust neck . . .
It's becoming so unbearable I can't sit still long enough to wait and see if it
feels better with such adjustment.
Q.
If
overall sitting is this bad, lay flat on the floor with your knees together and
feet about 12" apart, hands palm-down about 12" away from your body.
Eyes open, look up at the ceiling, mouth closed etc. This is an ok posture for
Stillness practice. It is not recommended usually because it is really hard not
to fall asleep. So, turn that struggle to your advantage. Watch your 'self' fall
asleep with the fiercest attention you can muster.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
I vacillate between thinking that
human consciousness was a mere by-product of our evolution and human
consciousness is the result of evolution. So is it our responsibility to make
the most of our consciousness and brains? But then, who decides what making the
most of our potential is? The criteria are so vast and so difficult to assign.
A.
You wrote: "The criteria is
so vast and so difficult to assign."
No. It's easy.
You wrote: "So is it our
responsibility to make the most of our consciousness and brains?"
Who else?
You wrote: "But then, who decides
what making the most of our potential is?"
You do.
It does not matter where
consciousness came from or how we got it. Not where or how but who? If you do
not know your "who," then find a shovel and start digging. Don't get
lost in thinking about thinking, (which is a sort of talking about spades
without actually digging). 'Looking at feelings' is real digging.
It is emotions that deliver
truth.
Q.
Yes, I do require a great deal of
introspection. The head spins and hopefully doesn't fall off.
A.
Good luck with that spinning head
but don't be too hard on yourself.
It's in the nature of heads to
spin. The harder you look for the "who" the less it will spin.
When the head stops spinning,
the heart sighs
and goes out
for
a
wander
and
a
wonder . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . .good luck!
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
Integrity can only be
compared between one person and the next if we assume that both people are
exactly the same. And if that were the case, there would be no need for more
than one person.
A.
For the purposes of living
together we do assume people are the same. But this isn't about clones it's
about trust, which is the fruit of integrity. It may be an aim we miss often,
but it's a noble one.
Q.
Integrity is, certainly in
part, about how well we adhere to the written laws we live by as social
animals. Integrity is also used a lot more on a very personal level. There is
no law that states you have to offer your seat to a pregnant woman on the train
- but most people's understanding of what is reasonable demands they do so.
Except that some people don't . . . . . Different, and different again. We
assume a common interest, but this does not infer that individuals are alike,
other than that they receive benefit from whatever the common interest is.
A.
You do
not have to infer that people are alike.
Look in
your own heart
You
will find us there.
If you look
in your head only
You
only find you
No
matter how clever the construct.
Good
luck to you.
Q.
I have thought about this,
and you are right. However, what do you think causes us to define (for the
purposes of living our lives) "other" people as "other"?
A.
Have
you ever sat in a café where there are mirrors on opposite walls?
Looked
at your multiplied reflections . . .
The
same but different.
They
say you cannot put your foot in the same river twice . . .
But it
gets wet both times!
Logic is
great
I love
it but there's more . . . .
As a
blade cannot cut itself, so a thought cannot see itself.
Logic
may hold centre stage, but it is one actor in the play.
Not the
director . . . . . there is no director.
We are
simultaneously players and audience.
When
you see that . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . you can go for a walk outside
. . .
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
Finding what is true inside is
one hell of a maze indeed. Is the process of seeing these mazes of
'reprogramming' within, truth in itself? It seems a process of deduction,
running into one delusional trap after another, but at the same time seeing the
process of this so-called deduction is inexhaustible, and that therefore
nothing of quantity is really being deducted. A paradox of sorts, except that
quality seems to increase.
A.
"The process of seeing these
mazes of 'reprogramming' within is truth in itself?" Are you asking for
verification here? I do not think you are asking for verification consciously;
I think you are "thinking out loud." Unconsciously, could be another
matter. There is only one person who can answer your question fully . . . . . .
.
Your
last paragraph intrigues me. I want to talk about this sentence first:
" . . . . therefore nothing
of quantity is really being deducted. a paradox of sorts, except that quality
seems to increase..." This is very true, and frankly, a thing of such subtlety
that I have always been shy of trying to describe this process. I have
hesitated because this is something the mind can latch on to and then thinking
and analyzing can spin away forever. For now, I would say that this
"quality" is a fruit of constancy, but it is not what you think.
(Hint).
Concerning your whole last
paragraph, my overall feeling is this: for me, it's not "deduction"
(thinking) but an experience (a feeling). Thinking is happening, but it's a
dazzling sideshow; it's the other things happening that matter. This only
emerges over time. I am going to write something now that I want you to
"think" about, (I say this because we both know our minds could not
stop thinking anyway). I would also like you to let the words "sink"
in, see what feelings float out later . . . .
This is
it:
Your
mind runs into one delusional trap after another
But
You
Do
Not.
But…
"You"
Do
Not.
Q.
The quality part of that statement is
indeed feeling, and not something I have been able to pinpoint with any
thinking. I cannot name anything specific that I feel has increased in quality
but yet I feel something qualitative is increasing. I am beginning to feel that
this quality increase has more to do with the practice of constancy itself. I am
trying not to proactively
think too much about this, though.
I can tell that I am becoming
more patient with constancy, not expecting too much now, but like you said over
time. I know it works now and currently that seems to be enough for me. I will
now think-n-sink-in that last bit you wrote. I was kind of missing homework
assignments.
A.
"I am trying not to proactively think too much about this,
though. . . . " Spot on! ! As you know, you can't stop yourself thinking
and it is a waste of effort to try. What you describe as "proactive,"
I describe as "investing." I try not to "invest" in the
thoughts that arise.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
I don't know what truth is, or
what any of this is all about, and my practice doesn't seem to bring me any
closer to it, which makes me think it must be unskillful. I feel pretty lost at
the moment, and just trying to be with what is. You always seem to have some
ideas.
A.
"
. . .and just trying to be with what is. . . . ."
There's nothing else, than being
with what is. You've heard this next thing before, but sometimes, these things do
not leap to their next level until someone says them to you (or at you!). . . .
So here it is anyway.
It is at times like these that
you are actually closer than before. When preconceptions die, when there is a
meaningful shift in our orientation, we get depressed. It is a good sign
because the mind is not automatically stepping in to sort, organize and
control. The mind will step back in, but for now it's a bit shell-shocked. Just
carry on watching it like hawk.
Know
truth,
Don't
know truth,
It does
not matter;
Just
carry on watching.
Strong,
Weak,
Just
carry on watching.
Loving,
Empty,
Just
carry on watching.
One day
you will see who is doing the watching.
That's
all there is. . . . . and it's more than enough.
Until the
more-than-enough, just watch the not-enough.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Q.
How can you stand not to shout about
this all the time? I want to scream from the roof tops; I want to grab people
on street corners. I want to explain to them; I want them to see. It's just . .
. . .astonishing. I did try telling people and just like you said, it fell
flat. I couldn’t do it, couldn't find the words. I remembered the
"they-must-ask-first" rule. They thought I was raving mad.
A.
It is difficult. It is as if you
are standing by the door and people are saying:
"Oh I do wish I could get
out."
And you say: "There's a door
right here."
Then they say: "what
door?"
You cannot make people see, no
matter how much they are suffering. You can see now, why so many teachers in
the past have given in to the temptation to manipulate people; it is so much
easier than watching them suffer. But we are not saving people from drowning.
We are teaching them to swim - if they ask us first. It is completely
empowering. But without that contract we just create another road to
hell: (as in, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions").
Q.
But you
have a website and you advertise don't you?
A.
Letting people ask first is not
the same as hiding away. I open my stall in the market place and show my wares,
because I have nothing to hide, and because to not do something with
Praxis feels wrong. The same principle applies, whether I wave a flag or not,
they must ask first.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Good luck to everyone !
Link to
second page of dialogues
Whole
site, words and images © Dave Mason, Clear 1, Shoreham by
Email:
please take out the 3 spaces after ‘threecircles’
threecircles @ntlworld.com