© Dave Mason : entire contents : Shoreham
by
First page of dialogues with others that illustrate Praxis
The following is a series dialogues that were
conducted over the Internet between 1999 - 2001. An index at the beginning
lists the dialogues; please scroll down to find particular items. The people
asking questions have been rendered anonymous and some of the language,
spelling and phrasing has been tidied up but the spirit of it all has been
retained.
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Index
Sounds heard whilst meditating
When
sitting meditation is difficult
Link
to second page of dialogues
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Q.
I am consumed with busyness. I like to work. I like to
create. I like to do, do, do. My hunger is for projects. Sitting in meditation
is so difficult for me although when I force myself I often enjoy it. How do I manufacture
hunger for spiritual practice?
A.
Then don't sit. Use your busy-ness as your practice.
Don't just be busy, watch yourself be busy. You cannot manufacture hunger and
passion. I promise you they are there in you. They will come out, when you watch
your self all the time - or what ever practice you choose and stick too all the
time).
Use all of what you do, to see all of what you are !
Also don't make spiritual and non-spiritual - it's all
the same porridge . . .
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QWhat do you mean when you say "I have trouble
with the concept 'no-self', which for me, is the old man coming in through the
back door"?
A.
We make something
called the "self;” you, me, everyone. Genes, our personal history,
the interactions between the two, maybe some "outside" spiritual
elements; they all make up the porridge called "self." Then we have
some experiences that are a bit outside the usual food-drink-shelter-sex merry
go round. Perhaps we label it "no-self," but it is just
another "self." Who experiences this no-self? Labels and labeling
come easy. The label "no-self" is an attempt to describe something
difficult but I think this label misleads. We just have another label. The old
man who went out the front door, walks round the back, and comes in through the
back door. Same old man, different door.
Q.
Maybe it's those pesky labels
that create all the problems in the first place.
A.
We create all the problems.
Q.
It's such a human thing to
name/label things.
A.
Everything we do is a human
thing.
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Q.
Does constancy ever bring you
peace of mind?
A.
It is best not plan or aim for
peace of mind. Instead, aim for something even better: find out who you are!
You do this by constantly looking. And when you are sick and tired of looking, look
some more. Praxis certainly works, but what it brings is different for all. It
would be better for you to ask this: not "will I get peace of mind from
this or that method," but rather, "what will I bring to the search,
how much do I want it, what am I prepared to do and how often?" To answer
your question, I would say yes, but my "peace of mind" might be
different to yours.
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Q.
I would be interested to
know why you think feelings are any more real than thoughts.
A.
The trite but true answer
is I don't "think" this; I feel it. The completely irritating answer
is with another question:
What is the difference
between thoughts and feelings?
Yet this question is a
priceless gem. This is what happened to me. I could not answer that question. I
was told this:
"as a blade cannot
cut itself
as a finger cannot touch
itself
so a thought cannot see
itself."
. . . . . hmmmm, a blade
cannot cut itself.
Unless you break the blade
in half and use one half to cut the other. Then you have 2 blades . . . . and
this is what thoughts do. They work out answers. They "calculate."
They comment, but they do more than this. The mind uses thought to
"arrange" things. And the mind goes . . . . . . . . . .
this is good, this is bad
this is good, this is bad
this is good, this is bad
this is good, this is bad,
on and on . . . . . .
You can work out a truth
with thought, but it just remains a thought, until your emotions validate it. I
am not talking every-day thought like 2 + 2 = 4, which rarely needs validating
emotionally. I am talking about a situation where someone might say, for
example, mathematics is more important than love. The former thought process is
a calculation; the latter, an idea of how-things-should-be. Both are thoughts
but it is the feeling of love that will show you how important it is.
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Q.
I thought spiritual
teachings were telling us to overcome our feelings and not be ruled by them?
A.
Feelings are more important
than thoughts because feelings have 'layers'. 'Underneath' a feeling is another
feeling, and underneath that, another feeling, more and more into deep places.
The 'deeper' feelings are more important than the 'surface' ones because they
act like signposts. We experience truth as a feeling. When following a method
like Praxis you are not setting feelings up as more important as such, we are
saying some feelings are more important than others. These deeper feelings will
not rule you or your behavior; they will just show you wonderful things.
When you watch your
feelings Constantly, you will see where you choose and don't choose, and see
this thousands of times a day. All these choices and not-choices will happen
anyway, but there is one choice that is vital: choosing to find out who you
are.
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Q.
How can I keep from
getting knocked away by emotions? I try to watch but the memory of what
happened consumes me...
A.
In order to get by in the
day-to-day world we use tactics learned during very early childhood. These
tactics mostly involve how to handle and suppress feelings. Sometimes that
control breaks down. If it happens strongly and often enough, then it gets
labeled as an illness. The emphasis in Praxis is to let all your normal mental
and physical functions happen as they occur. So, there are two things going on
here. Deal with your feelings - and any other problem - as you would do
normally. If your normal functioning is having problems, then devise a tactic
to deal with it, just like you would if you were not engaged on a spiritual
quest. Perhaps seek therapy to solve this. Praxis is not necessarily going to
help you deal with "normal" problems. The second thing is, you cannot
use Praxis to "patch" personal problems. Praxis brings benefits, but
they are long term. Having said that, Jung wrote this many years ago:
"....the main
interest of my work is not concerned with the treatment of neuroses but rather
with the approach to the numinous. But the fact is that the approach to the
numinous is the real therapy, and inasmuch as you attain to the numinous
experiences you are released from the curse of pathology. Even the very disease
takes on a numinous character."
Ø
(Jung :
Letter to a colleague 1945)
This is a very interesting
observation form Jung but in my experience a spiritual path is not the best way
to deal with personal problems; indeed, some personal problems may get worse as
spiritual quests can be stressful. In the long term, personal problems
can loose their centre-stage insistence if a spiritual method is diligently
followed. However, if you have personal problems it is better to fix them
directly. If you break a leg, a Doctor will fix it; if you have personal
problems see a therapist who will help you fix them. Therapy will not clash
with Praxis; they go together very well.
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Another person responded to Jung's quote above . . . .
.
Q.
Does the numinous take on
a diseased character?
A.
I feel the numinous to be
beyond our labels . . .
Q.
What then do you talk of
when you talk of the numinous? What have you labeled?
A.
My labels, like yours are
a bit hit and miss, when it comes to the numinous.
Or the big mystery
Or nirvana
Or the peace that passeth understanding
Or the cloud of unknowing
Or
[ insert your label here ]
Have you got one?
Q.
Imagine for a moment that
I had a car. And it was broken so I took it to the garage and I said my car is broken,
I think it's the numinous. The what? The numinous. It's playing up. And while
you're about it, would you take a look at my engine because I can't seem to
feel anything. He'd think I was mad because I'm not playing the language game.
And nor are you. We can all talk about numinouses but try taking them to a
garage to get them fixed!
A.
That's wonderful but
remember - it's the sum-up type labels that are a bit hit and miss. I agree, a
word like numinous could mean everything and nothing, but we don't just use one
word. Where we do, it's a kind of shorthand for a feeling-set that's very
complicated and changeable. Perhaps like me you have spent hours in the pub,
sometimes reaching a new place, built through sharing feelings communicated by
combinations of words. To reduce that end-of-evening feeling to one word is not
very helpful, I agree, but if others use words like this I do not feel shy
about trying to make some contact. It's the feeling-set I hope to achieve, not
a revelation about one word.
I really loved your
"garage" illustration. I am still laughing. The irony is, that life
is so strange, you just might get you numinous fixed at a garage . . . . . . .
. .far stranger things have happened !
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Q.
The common human goal is
happiness. Every well-directed action we undertake has that as its objective,
for ourselves or for others. Achieving that goal is what Buddhism is all about.
A.
I understand your theory and I
like what you bring to it. The approach I take is different; Praxis has very
little theory as such, but says something like this: "if you want to find
out what truth might be for you, try this technique." If asked how I know
this, my reply is simple. Because I have been doing it for years and it works.
At this stage, people usually try to get me describing what my experiences and
understandings might be. Whilst not ignoring their request, I consistently
return to the ‘kernel’, that they must try it for themselves if
they want to really experience truth, and not just learn a means to describe
what it might be.
I know you strongly advocate the
practice of meditation, but you also clearly blend it to a goal of happiness,
explaining the mechanism whereby this happiness is achieved. Even with this as
a good intention, in fact it creates just another layer of ideas that will need
to be let go of, at some stage or another. It might be better to say: "The
goal is to know what is true, don’t worry about trying to describe it
now, wait till you know. Any description of the state you might achieve, is
itself a barrier." Spike Milligan tells a little story in one of his
books; he has been summoned to see the sergeant. He is marched in to a dingy
room where the single dim light bulb seemed to make the room darker! I like
this image. Too much theory in this area of the human heart tends to make the
room darker, despite its good intentions.
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Q.
. . . . . . it is on the
wings of faith (the belief that there is a "something[s]"to know)
that we are to soar."
A.
No.
The irony is, it's the
opposite. We don't really soar till we let
go of faith, let go of ideas, let go. Here it gets tricky: you
cannot force yourself to let go. This is where we get stuck. Letting go comes
from watching. Watch yourself like hawk. Watch who needs faith and the
"why" will become apparent.
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Q.
How could we be guided to the
truth without GOD ? GOD is the everlasting Truth. Correct me if I am wrong.
A.
I do not know who God is. I have
never met him/her. Truth, however, is attainable; especially when seen as a
process, rather than as a single achievement.
If God has spoken or shown
him/herself to you, then everything is ok. You do not really need to go on
soul-searching; you put your effort into discovering his/her intentions. You
may look into your soul to discover the intentions there but it's not the same
kind of looking that I do. You look into your soul for extra information to
help with a truth you already know. I look into my soul to find truths I do not
yet know.
I have to tell you this. Most
(most!) of the people I know who talk about God a lot do not act as if they have
found some powerful personal truth. Their actions and their demeanor seem more
like people who have hopes rather than truth. I suspect that the power of their
needs, manifesting through hope, lead them to cast that hope as truth. In fact,
they have just stopped at a comfortable place. I do not mind that as such. What
I mind is when that place of comfort becomes a fortress from which the
narrow-sighted go forth to punish those who do not agree.
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Q.
I try to be conscious of all I
do, say, feel, etc. It is very difficult during the course of my workdays,
which are long. But I always seem to find myself not breathing. I realize
periodically throughout the day that I must have been holding my breath. How
could I go so long without breathing?
A.
Breathing is a mysterious and
complex process. Do not worry if you have periods when it seems you are not
breathing. Your body will know when to start breathing again.
Holding the breath is natural;
your body and your unconscious mind are denying the fear inside, so they
prevent the flow of energy, which allows the fear to flow by holding or
controlling the breath. Never force your breathing. When you realize that you
are holding your breath, just let it out; don't punish yourself, but go back to
your looking. You will get past this, but you must be ready to confront your
fears.
When your body/mind holds the
breath it is doing this as a kind of self-defense. So it is worth heeding that
warning. If you are going to face your fear then plan to have some support in
place. If you do not have anyone to lean on, then be cautious and gentle with
yourself. It is my experience that a fear faced squarely and with honesty is
never as bad as a fear left lurking in the shadows of your mind. It is also my
experience that very, very few people can "go it alone," so, look to
your support.
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Q.
Hi, how old are you? Where did
philosophical questions lead you in the past; I mean, what beliefs / theories
have inspired you in the past... to make this site?
A.
I am 47. I always liked Zen and
Sufi material. Their stories made me laugh. However, it was at the point when I
found myself no longer inspired by the philosophy of others that things really
changed for me.
Q.
I kind of "got hooked"
on the theories that "we create out own reality" . . .
A.
Be careful ! "We create our
own reality" - then why can't we stop war, rape and murder right now? Or
even by next Friday? In my opinion this "create your own reality"
approach is a false start and its roots come from paths of seeking power rather
than knowledge. "Reality" is very strange; the following is an
example. I will tell you a big secret. Are you ready?
Are you sat comfortably?
Prepared?
Really ready?
Here it is . . . . .
You
create your own reality and you don't create anything at the same time.
Wow - are you any wiser? No.
Because real spiritual knowledge does not come from trying to change reality or
even from learning but from SEEING your own heart and mind. In order to see
your own heart and mind you need to choose a technique.
Q.
Recently I searched through a
little Buddhist stuff, where I also find things I like. . . . . I guess I kind
of feel a little like that Sam guy in you story "Conversation,"
searching for answers all over (especially on the web), without being able to
apply it in my own life.
A.
Why can't you apply it? What is
stopping you? If you are thirsty, you drink some water. If you want to find out
who you are, start looking. If you do not know how, find a method. Now I know
it is not this simple, but you need to be careful: some people confuse wanting
a better life with wanting a spiritual life - they are not the same. Following
a spiritual path means that things will probably get worse for you (at first).
Ask yourself this: how much do I really want it? What am I really prepared to
do to find out?
Q.
I read you whole site a half a
year ago (but a little fast), and the story some months ago . . . I think I
have to go through the site again to grasp it more. I guess it be a waste of time,
if I don't decide to try the exercises . . .
A.
Choosing what to do can be the hardest t